ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

VeryFamus wrote:

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

to convince other people and to explain to people where it is good to advertise (eg. show and tell)

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

to convince other people and to explain to people where it is good to advertise (eg. show and tell)

Why do you need to convince other people? What the people are doing is perfectly fine. Nothing wrong with advertising and F4F. Besides, you can do that in a simple comment.

One shouldn't advertise on someone else's page (e.g. profile pages / projects) unless explicitly stated otherwise, though that's just my opinion. I believe it's just taking advantage of someone else's audience and feeding from them.

-if you see someone stealing art/code/ect. you can kindly ask them to give credit to the original creator or asking nicely to stop

The SSA is trying to save Scratch by stopping false reporters, haters, fame-seekers,

Because people are banning me in my other accounts.

Scratch is losing its wonderful Scratchers.

Many people are leaving because of the system being run down over time and people trying there best to advertise

A project which only contained a square, grass and spikes could get up to 5000 loves. A platformer, an exact copy of others and only colours were changed, got on trending. Is this what we are looking for?

How is these even related to your point?

Reasons why I don't support:

1. F4f and ads are mostly bad
   
2. Even if they are good criticising them shouldn't be banned
   
3. Your suggestion violates free speech
   
4. These criticism isn’t causing troubles for anybody, as long is they aren’t saying something like “stop doing f4f you idiot” to random people (which in most cases they aren't)
   

VeryFamus wrote:

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

Why shouldn't you be allowed to make a studio about it? This is like saying "We should ban aviation studios because they can just say 'I like planes' on their profile" (that's the only thing I can think of, because I own two aviation studios)

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

Not all bad things are banned, drugs are legal in some countries, does it mean they are good?

Anyways, I think F4F is bad (this includes both follow-for-follow and F4F Wildcat)

sharkode wrote:

-snip-
How is these even related to your point?

Reasons why I don't support:

1. F4f and ads are mostly bad
   
2. Even if they are good criticising them shouldn't be banned
   
3. Your suggestion violates free speech
   
4. These criticism isn’t causing troubles for anybody, as long is they aren’t saying something like “stop doing f4f you idiot” to random people (which in most cases they aren't)
   

Well, those quotes, which you failed to include the rebuttal of, were there to provide some examples to the misinformation.

Your reasons are opinion based, which aren't backed up by facts.
F4F and ads, are only reportable in places where they aren't allowed, such as profiles/projects that don't allow/do f4f and/or ads. Even then, with f4f, you are supposed to politely decline the offer, stating that you don't do f4f. Should the one offering f4f continue, report.
Criticizing f4f and ads aren't going to be banned by this suggestion, which is to take down things dedicated to “stopping f4f/ads.” More often than not, they usually includes things that aren't exactly going along with the guidelines.
It doesn't actually violate free speech for a couple of reasons; 1, You are still allowed to voice/have your own opinion (respectfully, of course), and 2, the entirety of section three of the Scratch Terms of Use. By making an account, you agree to abide by that, so your argument of free speech doesn't exactly work here.
The criticisms themselves aren't necessarily hurting anyone, yes, but it is how the people behind those criticisms are voicing their opinions that is the concern of this suggestion.

For the sake of not having an extremely long post and maintaining readability, I have decided to split my post into two, this post being in reply to your last post as of the time that I have started making this post.

sharkode wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

Why shouldn't you be allowed to make a studio about it? This is like saying "We should ban aviation studios because they can just say 'I like planes' on their profile" (that's the only thing I can think of, because I own two aviation studios)

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

Not all bad things are banned, drugs are legal in some countries, does it mean they are good?

Anyways, I think F4F is bad (this includes both follow-for-follow and F4F Wildcat)

Often, studios made for people who dislike f4f/ads are somewhat discriminatory towards those who do f4f/ads, so that's why. If you can make a studio that is not discriminatory nor hateful to those who do what those who are in the studio do not like, then that is fine. Now, I would like to state that not allowing f4f/ads in a studio is not discriminatory, it's just boundaries. What would be discriminatory would be not allowing those who do f4f/ads in the studio and generally treating them differently in a negative way.

Drugs aren't usually that bad, when taken for medical purposes, it's usually the abuse of the drug that makes it bad.
You are fine to have the opinion that f4f is bad, but do keep in mind that others may not have the same opinion as you.

sharkode wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

ScratchCatHELLO wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

people are allowed to think things that are allowed are bad

Yes, they are, but why make a studio for it? You can just say it in a comment or put it on your What I’m working on or About me. No need to make a studio for it. You can complain, but just why? Besides, if you don’t like it, you can just reply to their comment saying “please don’t advertise” or “sorry, I don’t do F4F”.

Why shouldn't you be allowed to make a studio about it? This is like saying "We should ban aviation studios because they can just say 'I like planes' on their profile" (that's the only thing I can think of, because I own two aviation studios)

VeryFamus wrote:

Support. These studios just spread false messages and say that that f4f and advertising are bad, when they are, indeed, allowed.

Not all bad things are banned, drugs are legal in some countries, does it mean they are good?

Anyways, I think F4F is bad (this includes both follow-for-follow and F4F Wildcat)

In what way does saying I like aviation relate to not liking f4f? Nobody complains or hates aviation, but f4f and advertising is just a topic best left not to talk about. F4F is good and bad, varies by person, similar to advertising. Besides, who said F4F and advertising were bad? They have absolutely no negative impact and harm no one.

Also, F4F is an abbreviation of follow for follow. They are the same thing.

VeryFamus wrote:

In what way does saying I like aviation relate to not liking f4f? Nobody complains or hates aviation, but f4f and advertising is just a topic best left not to talk about. F4F is good and bad, varies by person, similar to advertising. Besides, who said F4F and advertising were bad? They have absolutely no negative impact and harm no one.

They are harmful because they are annoying, especially if you clearly state “I don't do f4f” on your profile, they also strengthen the theme of fame which I think is bad because they put pressure onto people to get famous and they often get upset because they aren't famous enough, I think ST is already kind enough for not banning f4f, and now you guys are suggesting the criticism of f4f should be banned.

sharkode wrote:

VeryFamus wrote:

In what way does saying I like aviation relate to not liking f4f? Nobody complains or hates aviation, but f4f and advertising is just a topic best left not to talk about. F4F is good and bad, varies by person, similar to advertising. Besides, who said F4F and advertising were bad? They have absolutely no negative impact and harm no one.

They are harmful because they are annoying, especially if you clearly state “I don't do f4f” on your profile, they also strengthen the theme of fame which I think is bad because they put pressure onto people to get famous and they often get upset because they aren't famous enough, I think ST is already kind enough for not banning f4f, and now you guys are suggesting the criticism of f4f should be banned.

Once again, f4f being annoying is your opinion. I simultaneously agree and disagree with you on f4f strengthening fame, as it can do that, but not with every case. Fame being bad, is again, your opinion. I will say, that fame, or rather, the pursuit of it, is only “bad” whenever boundaries are not respected. Otherwise, it is 100% fine to use Scratch to pursue fame. I've said this multiple times, we're not banning the criticism of f4f, we're wanting an official policy on stuff that try to “stop” f4f, ads, etc.

DarthVader4Life wrote:

Once again, f4f being annoying is your opinion. I simultaneously agree and disagree with you on f4f strengthening fame, as it can do that, but not with every case. Fame being bad, is again, your opinion. I will say, that fame, or rather, the pursuit of it, is only “bad” whenever boundaries are not respected. Otherwise, it is 100% fine to use Scratch to pursue fame. I've said this multiple times, we're not banning the criticism of f4f, we're wanting an official policy on stuff that try to “stop” f4f, ads, etc.

I know it's just about opinions, so does everything, but you can't just censor all opinions but your own, it simply doesn't work like that, and I never said fame is bad, I what I meant is I think having a strong theme of pursuing fame on a fun code and game site is bad

sharkode wrote:

DarthVader4Life wrote:

Once again, f4f being annoying is your opinion. I simultaneously agree and disagree with you on f4f strengthening fame, as it can do that, but not with every case. Fame being bad, is again, your opinion. I will say, that fame, or rather, the pursuit of it, is only “bad” whenever boundaries are not respected. Otherwise, it is 100% fine to use Scratch to pursue fame. I've said this multiple times, we're not banning the criticism of f4f, we're wanting an official policy on stuff that try to “stop” f4f, ads, etc.

I know it's just about opinions, so does everything, but you can't just censor all opinions but your own, it simply doesn't work like that, and I never said fame is bad, I what I meant is I think having a strong theme of pursuing fame on a fun code and game site is bad

We're not censoring anyone's opinions, though. I've said that time and time again.
I know what you meant. Why did you think that I included “or rather, the pursuit of fame”?
There is nothing wrong with using Scratch to pursue fame, as long as you follow all the rules, of course. That's actually a fact.

In the middle support because

DarthVader4Life wrote:

Once again, f4f being annoying is your opinion. I simultaneously agree and disagree with you on f4f strengthening fame, as it can do that, but not with every case. Fame being bad, is again, your opinion. I will say, that fame, or rather, the pursuit of it, is only “bad” whenever boundaries are not respected. Otherwise, it is 100% fine to use Scratch to pursue fame. I've said this multiple times, we're not banning the criticism of f4f, we're wanting an official policy on stuff that try to “stop” f4f, ads, etc.

I don't think f4f is annoying, but I would like to see less f4f stuff.

ya'll are kinda getting off-topic. this isn't about whether or not f4f is bad. it's about the spreading of misinformation via studios that treat people who engage in these activities negatively.

sharkode wrote:

I know it's just about opinions, so does everything, but you can't just censor all opinions but your own, it simply doesn't work like that

one can censor opinions when they are spreading misinformation.

this one bothers me the most:

if you see someone stealing art/code/ect. you can kindly ask them to give credit to the original creator or asking nicely to stop

this is flamewar-provoking material that is false and harmful to the scratch community.

Queer_Royalty wrote:

this one bothers me the most:

if you see someone stealing art/code/ect. you can kindly ask them to give credit to the original creator or asking nicely to stop

this is flamewar-provoking material that is false and harmful to the scratch community.

what's problematic about this? if I'm remembering correctly, under scratch's license, you have to give credit to use other people's creations. Therefore, this is correct and also not “flamewar-provoking” and “harmful” because it's asking nicely and not reporting or anything.

Queer_Royalty wrote:

ya'll are kinda getting off-topic. this isn't about whether or not f4f is bad. it's about the spreading of misinformation via studios that treat people who engage in these activities negatively.

sharkode wrote:

I know it's just about opinions, so does everything, but you can't just censor all opinions but your own, it simply doesn't work like that

one can censor opinions when they are spreading misinformation.

this one bothers me the most:

if you see someone stealing art/code/ect. you can kindly ask them to give credit to the original creator or asking nicely to stop

this is flamewar-provoking material that is false and harmful to the scratch community.

Yes I actually think you can without accusing them of anything, I think it's actually allowed if you say “Hi, nice project, I think that sprite might be mine and you might have forgotten to give credit, I'm sure you didn't do that on purpose, thanks!” instead of “Hey you stole that from me, give me credit or I'll report”

Also, you were talking about a statement and not an opinion,
This is an opinion:

I think f4f is bad

And this is a (clearly wrong) statement:

f4f is permitted because it divides Scratch and creates a lots of different opinions, this causes conflicts amongst the users so they can ban some users to save server space

Please stop mixing up statements and opinions, I think there are usually no right and wrong opinions and they should never be censored unless if they are too bad (like saying “Adolf Hitler and Pol Pot are the greatest leaders to ever exist”)

Don’t use the argument that this violates “free speech”. Technically so, the Bad Word Detector does, too.

han614698 wrote:

Don’t use the argument that this violates “free speech”. Technically so, the Bad Word Detector does, too.

How does bad word detector violate free speech? Bad word detector is there to stop you from swearing, free speech means you should be allowed to voice your opinion, swearing isn't an opinion so I wouldn't consider this “violation of free speech”, saying something like “swearing should be allowed on Scratch” is an opinion (although it's an unpopular one), and are allowed

sharkode wrote:

han614698 wrote:

Don’t use the argument that this violates “free speech”. Technically so, the Bad Word Detector does, too.

How does bad word detector violate free speech? Bad word detector is there to stop you from swearing, free speech means you should be allowed to voice your opinion, swearing isn't an opinion so I wouldn't consider this “violation of free speech”, saying something like “swearing should be allowed on Scratch” is an opinion (although it's an unpopular one), and are allowed

He was arguing that, if the topic is “violating free speech”, then in the sense that if this topic bans free speech, then the BWD bans free speech. So, what he means is, it's not ethical to think that the topic violates free speech, which I semi-agree with. If people try to stop f4f or ads, it depends on the way they stop it. If they just go onto someone else's profile and tell them to “stop doing F4F” then I think that should issue in a warning. If they just ask on their profile not to do F4F, it's fine. I think banning people, studios, collabs, and projects might be too harsh and might be removing their free speech.