Aquaflame wrote:

Flaame wrote:

Aquaflame wrote:

I bet both sides can agree on this:
Why don't we care anymore?
The people who like the update go on with their lives and keep on Scratching.
The people who don't like the update deal with the update and get used to it.
There's no reason to fight. I used to dislike the update, but it's just one number. I'm used to clicking “View All” now, and I'm sure many others are used to it, too. I don't see why we're still arguing a week after the update. It's not like the Scratch Team completely redesigned Scratch's interface. It's not like the concept of “following” is removed entirely. It's just a number, and you can see it by clicking view all.
One effect of the follower count being removed is that I don't check on how many followers I have too much. But I still know that it's at approximately 320 to 330 followers. And it still makes me happy to know that. Here's a question for Superdoggy. You have over 1,000 followers, right? You probably know that. Well, does it really help to know you have exactly 1181 followers? Does that exact number give you more pride than just knowing you hit 1,000 followers? Just my point of view.

I'm not used at it at all. Besides, the comment numbers were tooken down too.

Do you count your comments? If not, then I don't see why this poses a problem. And do you really look at follower counts that much? Because if you're not used to it, you will be soon.

Superdoggy wrote:

I want my followers number back! I can't stand two more clicks to view it! That's too much work and I hate it! I have the right to know how popular I am or else I will quit! I mean it!!111!!!1!

Seriously! How am I gonna know when I get 1000 followers so I can make a 1000 followers special and be as cool as griffpatch! Rude Scratch rude!!!!

-Superdoggy

900miles wrote:

Superdoggy wrote:

I want my followers number back! I can't stand two more clicks to view it! That's too much work and I hate it! I have the right to know how popular I am or else I will quit! I mean it!!111!!!1!

Seriously! How am I gonna know when I get 1000 followers so I can make a 1000 followers special and be as cool as griffpatch! Rude Scratch rude!!!!

-Superdoggy

*weeps for humanity's dignity and virtue*

Aquaflame wrote:

I bet both sides can agree on this:
Why do we even care anymore?
The people who like the update go on with their lives and keep on Scratching.
The people who don't like the update deal with the update and get used to it.
There's no reason to fight. I used to dislike the update, but it's just one number. I'm used to clicking “View All” now, and I'm sure many others are used to it, too. I don't see why we're still arguing a week after the update. It's not like the Scratch Team completely redesigned Scratch's interface. It's not like the concept of “following” is removed entirely. It's just a number, and you can see it by clicking view all.
One effect of the follower count being removed is that I don't check on how many followers I have too much. But I still know that it's at approximately 320 to 330 followers. And it still makes me happy to know that. Here's a question for Superdoggy. You have over 1,000 followers, right? You probably know that. Well, does it really help to know you have exactly 1181 followers? Does that exact number give you more pride than just knowing you hit 1,000 followers? Just my point of view.

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

Personally, I'd like to combine both words… “Socialist Walkout”…

But I'm pretty sure that this isn't going to happen.

Anyway…

I'm surprised to be hearing this from you (well, sort of) after you just released a project with the sole purpose of recording data (in numbers) from how good people are against a computer in Battleship.

Sure, numbers aren't everything. However, programming isn't everything, too. If you want to become a programmer for a living, you'll have to understand your market, too. When you get to see how many followers or comments you have, you also see how good your projects have been, how many people liked them enough to follow, etc.

My use of cloud data for the purpose of statistical sampling has nothing to do with my problems with people's egos being overly dependent on their follower count.

I agree with your ideas about marketing but we need to be careful to not overemphasize personal fame, as opposed than the success of an individual project. I don't want to speak for the scratch team but I feel like their goals are to teach programming rather than teach users about economics, so ultimately while scratch is still a type of ‘market’, I think it's inappropriate to interpret the role of an individual user as similar to a business.

It really distracts from the purpose of creating things to be surrounded by an environment that is constantly worrying about social status and numbers, and I feel that many younger users (I once was one myself, on Youtube) may not be mature enough to look past popularity. this is why we need to make it explicitly less visible.

Scratchifier wrote:

But then the Scratch Team is going backwards and disabling a bunch of new features to 2.0 because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

Zro716 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

But then the Scratch Team is going backwards and disabling a bunch of new features to 2.0 because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

that's called responding to feedback. Scratch could be headed a whole different– and unfavorable– direction if the ST updated things on Scratch without regarding the opinion of the community. It's not their choice, it's ours: we chose to get rid of the following numbers because they are clouding the original intent of Scratch.

if you want things improved, suggest things to improve upon (in a separate topic). Don't scold the ST for doing their job. Don't rant and say people are pretending to make a mountain out of a molehill because you're doing exactly that.

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

You sound contradictory

I don't think that we are going backwards. We are moving forward after admitting that some new features were not appropriate for the community.

Perhaps it doesn't solve problems immediately. But it is a step in the right direction and a step towards a less spammy community. Obviously these things will always exist and be annoying, but there is no place for website features that practically encourage them, which is why i support the removal.

My New Outro

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

You sound contradictory

I don't think that we are going backwards. We are moving forward after admitting that some new features were not appropriate for the community.

Perhaps it doesn't solve problems immediately. But it is a step in the right direction and a step towards a less spammy community. Obviously these things will always exist and be annoying, but there is no place for website features that practically encourage them, which is why i support the removal.

I do.

Meh, it's hard to explain. Basically I'm trying to say that while the Scratch community is the way that it's been, for, oh, let's say two years, somebody points out this tiny thing and demands radical change.

It's been years. Years, without any “problems”. Why does it have to be changed now?

Well, after this problem is fixed, the community's surely going to make up another one.

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

You sound contradictory.

I don't think that we are going backwards. We are moving forward after admitting that some new features were not appropriate for the community.

Perhaps it doesn't solve problems immediately. But it is a step in the right direction and a step towards a less spammy community. Obviously these things will always exist and be annoying, but there is no place for website features that practically encourage them, which is why I support the removal.

I do.

Meh, it's hard to explain. Basically I'm trying to say that while the Scratch community is the way that it's been, for, oh, let's say two years, somebody points out this tiny thing and demands radical change.

It's been years. Years, without any “problems”. Why does it have to be changed now?

Well, after this problem is fixed, the community's surely going to make up another one.

I don't think that you have enough insider knowledge about scratch to claim that this removal was the result of a singular user. It was most likely a group consensus from the Scratch Team and associated educators and moderators.

This is not radical change, and you are not being punished. This is not an affront to your dignity. yes, I understand that you are a fine upstanding scratcher who has never done anything wrong, but the problem is that not everybody is like that, and so a change is in order for the entire community. It is fair. If you think you should be exempt from following community rules because you are more mature than other users, think again. Constructing a positive community requires us to work together and occasionally accept change whether we personally like it or not.

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

You sound contradictory.

I don't think that we are going backwards. We are moving forward after admitting that some new features were not appropriate for the community.

Perhaps it doesn't solve problems immediately. But it is a step in the right direction and a step towards a less spammy community. Obviously these things will always exist and be annoying, but there is no place for website features that practically encourage them, which is why I support the removal.

I do.

Meh, it's hard to explain. Basically I'm trying to say that while the Scratch community is the way that it's been, for, oh, let's say two years, somebody points out this tiny thing and demands radical change.

It's been years. Years, without any “problems”. Why does it have to be changed now?

Well, after this problem is fixed, the community's surely going to make up another one.

I don't think that you have enough insider knowledge about scratch to claim that this removal was the result of a singular user. It was most likely a group consensus from the Scratch Team and associated educators and moderators.

This is not radical change, and you are not being punished. This is not an affront to your dignity. yes, I understand that you are a fine upstanding scratcher who has never done anything wrong, but the problem is that not everybody is like that, and so a change is in order for the entire community. It is fair. If you think you should be exempt from following community rules because you are more mature than other users, think again. Constructing a positive community requires us to work together and occasionally accept change whether we personally like it or not.

Well, on a bit of a tangent, I did not say that I had never done anything wrong, due to my earlier months on Scratch, I did not know how to respond to some things…

But I don't think that removing things and making it more difficult to do certain activities is actually going to help anything in the way of making people act more positively. xP Take, well, the Earth for example. I'm going to try to not put a religious bias on this, but the fact is this: Even with improvements in technology, more comfort, more counselors, and all of that stuff, the people of the planet haven't actually gotten better in general, or at least as far as I can tell… but I won't use up all of my argument on that.

As for the insider knowledge that I do not have, it was more of an assumption… but one based on what has happened before.

I happen to know that you were on the side of Anti-AE… and although you didn't intentionally stir the pot, you certainly did so. And this doesn't only apply to you though…

The main argument for COMPLETELY BANNING AE STUDIOS was… the studios sidebar/not being able to find a good studio in a bunch of AEs, which, might I point out, wasn't a feature in 1.4. Did you feel dignified to have your project in great studios? Of course you did! (Considering that I know you wouldn't just complain randomly). Even when that put Scratch in total upheaval, raging comments coming back and forth for (a year? Longer?)…

And the Scratch Team took the side of the people who wanted to use that sidebar feature and the studio search feature… even when the studio search on 1.4 was completely polluted with RPGs!

Now some of us want the follower numbers back. It'll add a few, A FEW, A FEW comments more here or there about followers. None about comments, why was that even removed in the first place?

I want you to tell me this: Why are the features that people like me like removed while the ones that you like fought for tooth and nail for a year? Not necessarily by you, as I remember that you unshared your project… but then again, I'm not specifically trying to only disprove your argument. I'm trying to let the Scratch Team see mine with their double-standard shown.

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

Wes64 wrote:

Scratchifier wrote:

However, as I've said, not getting the right stats is annoying, at least to me.

Scratchifier wrote:

..because of other Scratchers who rant, pretend there are problems out of tiny annoyances, and suggest fixes that will just make things worse only to prove a point.

You sound contradictory.

I don't think that we are going backwards. We are moving forward after admitting that some new features were not appropriate for the community.

Perhaps it doesn't solve problems immediately. But it is a step in the right direction and a step towards a less spammy community. Obviously these things will always exist and be annoying, but there is no place for website features that practically encourage them, which is why I support the removal.

I do.

Meh, it's hard to explain. Basically I'm trying to say that while the Scratch community is the way that it's been, for, oh, let's say two years, somebody points out this tiny thing and demands radical change.

It's been years. Years, without any “problems”. Why does it have to be changed now?

Well, after this problem is fixed, the community's surely going to make up another one.

I don't think that you have enough insider knowledge about scratch to claim that this removal was the result of a singular user. It was most likely a group consensus from the Scratch Team and associated educators and moderators.

This is not radical change, and you are not being punished. This is not an affront to your dignity. yes, I understand that you are a fine upstanding scratcher who has never done anything wrong, but the problem is that not everybody is like that, and so a change is in order for the entire community. It is fair. If you think you should be exempt from following community rules because you are more mature than other users, think again. Constructing a positive community requires us to work together and occasionally accept change whether we personally like it or not.

Well, on a bit of a tangent, I did not say that I had never done anything wrong, due to my earlier months on Scratch, I did not know how to respond to some things…

But I don't think that removing things and making it more difficult to do certain activities is actually going to help anything in the way of making people act more positively. xP Take, well, the Earth for example. I'm going to try to not put a religious bias on this, but the fact is this: Even with improvements in technology, more comfort, more counselors, and all of that stuff, the people of the planet haven't actually gotten better in general, or at least as far as I can tell… but I won't use up all of my argument on that.

As for the insider knowledge that I do not have, it was more of an assumption… but one based on what has happened before.

I happen to know that you were on the side of Anti-AE… and although you didn't intentionally stir the pot, you certainly did so. And this doesn't only apply to you though…

The main argument for COMPLETELY BANNING AE STUDIOS was… the studios sidebar/not being able to find a good studio in a bunch of AEs, which, might I point out, wasn't a feature in 1.4. Did you feel dignified to have your project in great studios? Of course you did! (Considering that I know you wouldn't just complain randomly). Even when that put Scratch in total upheaval, raging comments coming back and forth for (a year? Longer?)…

And the Scratch Team took the side of the people who wanted to use that sidebar feature and the studio search feature… even when the studio search on 1.4 was completely polluted with RPGs!

Now some of us want the follower numbers back. It'll add a few, A FEW, A FEW comments more here or there about followers. None about comments, why was that even removed in the first place?

I want you to tell me this: Why are the features that people like me like removed while the ones that you like fought for tooth and nail for a year? Not necessarily by you, as I remember that you unshared your project… but then again, I'm not specifically trying to only disprove your argument. I'm trying to let the Scratch Team see mine with their double-standard shown.

this post is completely ad-hominem and unacceptable. I am not going to continue this discussion.

ZaharaMar wrote:

The Scratch Team made the update for a reason -a good reason in my opinion- we should embrace it. One more click won't do anyone any harm.

Superdoggy wrote:

ZaharaMar wrote:

The Scratch Team made the update for a reason -a good reason in my opinion- we should embrace it. One more click won't do anyone any harm.

xP but how many extra clicks does it take to find out the comment number?

Superdoggy wrote:

ZaharaMar wrote:

The Scratch Team made the update for a reason -a good reason in my opinion- we should embrace it. One more click won't do anyone any harm.

xP but how many extra clicks does it take to find out the comment number?

Edit: that sounds a bit edgy, but I assure you it's supposed to be a slightly pointed joke.

ZaharaMar wrote:

Superdoggy wrote:

ZaharaMar wrote:

The Scratch Team made the update for a reason -a good reason in my opinion- we should embrace it. One more click won't do anyone any harm.

xP but how many extra clicks does it take to find out the comment number?

Edit: that sounds a bit edgy, but I assure you it's supposed to be a slightly pointed joke.

Why do you need to see your comment number? I understand that it is a big diference, but what does a comment number give you?