I'm almost all for your ideas BoltBait.
Although, I don't quite think this is a TOTAL solution to everything. The Scratch motto is Imagine, Program, Share. The whole point is that the possibilities are endless, and that you could create anything. Setting it up so that there is this, this and this, just closes it up for everyone who wants to branch out and do there own thing.

They're great ideas, but don't provide much opportunity for the creativity inside all of us.

Firedrake969

BoltBait

Firedrake969
Well, nothing will be “secure.”

By ‘secure’ I mean ‘able to prevent chat projects.’

And, by that definition, cloud variables are COMPLETELY unsecure and the proposals I've given are MUCH more secure.

BTW, I've added a few graphics to my original post to illustrate what a Leader Board might look like.

Much clearer.
I still have an idea of how you could modify a leaderboard to be a chat room.
And yes, by your definition of secure, nothing will be secure.

Well… Sort of.

The whole concept of the current elipsis on cloud lists is to PREVENT things from being insecure. I don't see why they wouldn't integrate a protection function then.

ooo I like the idea of a leaderboard tab, that'd be amazing!

Really guys why all this fuss about chat rooms?
Removing the abiltiy to use cloud variables for chat is just repressing creativity and honestly telling programers what they can and cant do (excluding hacking) is kind of ridiculous i can understand policy where if your project contains certain things (like chat) you need to have a disclaimer script explaining what is in the project but disallowing all together is like java going up to mojang and sayin “ oh sorry your program contains chat im afraid were gonna have to take it down” you cant do that there so why is it any more appropriate here?

botcrusher
Really guys why all this fuss about chat rooms?
Removing the abiltiy to use cloud variables for chat is just repressing creativity and honestly telling programers what they can and cant do (excluding hacking) is kind of ridiculous i can understand policy where if your project contains certain things (like chat) you need to have a disclaimer script explaining what is in the project but disallowing all together is like java going up to mojang and sayin “ oh sorry your program contains chat im afraid were gonna have to take it down” you cant do that there so why is it any more appropriate here?

Okay, let's say an eight year old logs on to a chat, and starts chatting. It would be possible for someone else to come on, and start swearing, and then the kid would report the guy, and then you would need to do all this moderatoration. The Scratch team doesn't want to have to moderate 1,000 projects with chats with all different people on them (possibly) swearing.

The problem is going to be much bigger than 1,000 projects. Using cloud variables, you can make a chat project in about 1 minute. In fact, it is the only type of project that cloud variables are really designed for. There are going to be THOUSANDS of chat projects and no one to moderate them.

Behold! The most feared project on the Scratch website:

          

How many of these projects are we going to have on the site once cloud variables are turned back on?

EDIT:

You see how easy it was to make a chat project using cloud variables. I would like the other uses for persistent data to be just as easy to implement. I added a leader board to one of my games and it was a total pain. That's why I came up with some alternative solutions. Scratch should be easy to use not difficult to use. Staying with cloud variable seems like an easy solution for the Scratch Team but not for the Scratchers… and that's backwards.

Hey look, I was mentioned.

BoltBait wrote:

I added a leader board to one of my games and it was a total pain. That's why I came up with some alternative solutions. Scratch should be easy to use not difficult to use. Staying with cloud variable seems like an easy solution for the Scratch Team but not for the Scratchers… and that's backwards.

You are completely ignoring the fact that people might want to use cloud variables for things other than games. There are billions of other things you could do with them, and by implementing your ideas it would no longer be possible to make them.

azaquaz wrote:

BoltBait wrote:

I added a leader board to one of my games and it was a total pain. That's why I came up with some alternative solutions. Scratch should be easy to use not difficult to use. Staying with cloud variable seems like an easy solution for the Scratch Team but not for the Scratchers… and that's backwards.

You are completely ignoring the fact that people might want to use cloud variables for things other than games. There are billions of other things you could do with them, and by implementing your ideas it would no longer be possible to make them.

I would invite you to come up with a use for persistent data and a solution to that problem that could not be abused into making a chat project.

I'm listening.

EDIT:

The only idea that I've come up with so far is a poll type project (What is your favorite color, etc.). Perhaps there should be a few blocks that could be defined that could handle polls.

Maybe make a cloud variable to hold poll-type options (maybe limited to 10 numbers) and then a few blocks for voting (add to a number) and displaying the results (a reporter block that can't be read from, similar to my suggested leader board).

OK, that's taken care of. What else ya got?

Maybe nXIII could write a static analysis tool for Scratch projects that detects chatroom scripts, and automatically reports them…?

blob8108 wrote:

Maybe nXIII could write a static analysis tool for Scratch projects that detects chatroom scripts, and automatically reports them…?

When I have time, I might actually try that…

nXIII wrote:

blob8108 wrote:

Maybe nXIII could write a static analysis tool for Scratch projects that detects chatroom scripts, and automatically reports them…?

When I have time, I might actually try that…

Does that mean when you have that finished, we'll have cloud data enabled within 24 hours of you creating it?

If you do somehow create that, maybe the project can still be worked upon, but you won't be able to share it (and if it's already shared, either disable the cloud data for that project or unshare it?).

Also, if someone were to be able to bypass the analysis tool, people would probably remix that project. Of course, you can then update the tool to detect the new scripts, but it seems a little tedious.

Magnie wrote:

if someone were to be able to bypass the analysis

Well, that all depends on how good your analysis tool is in the first place…

Lightnin wrote:

Thanks for sharing these ideas - there's plenty to consider up there! Given the various security concerns, it may be worth stepping back to strategize based on what a lot of Scratchers are interested in. For example, we could consider taking small steps into the world of cloud variables with something like the “Leader boards” idea you proposed above.

Just as a side note - many of the performance issues affecting use of cloud variables now are likely to get fixed / optimized in the not too distant future. So we shouldn't confuse these with the design issues - they are problems of a different sort.

You are from the ST right? I saw that you are from ST in Scratch 1.4, in your profile, and, I just want to ask, why do you have to fix them, can't you just make an option to code things?

C

XenoK wrote:

ooo I like the idea of a leaderboard tab, that'd be amazing!

That could be used for a lot of things, but it still could be used for cloud chat rooms

By ‘secure’ I mean ‘able to prevent chat projects.’

And, by that definition, cloud variables are COMPLETELY unsecure

Necro-ing everywhere…

Please look at the date of the post before posting, as you might necropost.

Bump
i wanna see peoples thoughts as this is a pretty long suggestion.
and wanna see if people see its old