Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

I propose an alternative that could be better.

I have three things to say.

1. I'm not sure it would fit well into the New Scratchers forum.
   
2. Just to double-check, this topic would still be made by the Scratch Team, correct?
   
3. If the issue with my suggestion is that kids will not understand an announcement about the Scratch Teams actions, what changes things about a similar topic being made in the New Scratchers forum?
   

At the end of the day, is any alternative better? Alternatives are subjective, subjective to who views them. Viewers can be kids, adults, grandparents. They may live in the United States, Italy or Mexico. They might live 32 miles away from you or millions of miles away from you. If anything's subjective then people might not even like this suggestion because it's subjective right. Why don't we go all the way through and say Scratch is subjective!
Of course that's not how the universe works, decisions need to be made by people. If our core audience is kid then a kid well could misunderstand anything really, a 2 year old using Scratch couldn't read! Let's remove text from Scratch! You didn't say that but I did, maybe I should be reported from a viewpoint, maybe it doesn't matter from another viewpoint? This post isn't for discussing viewpoints however. It wouldn't change anything if we had an announcement because kids can misinterpret that or ignore that. Maybe defining a stricter definition of kids is ideal. Or maybe we should not try to ideal to everyone's viewpoint, every kid's viewpoint. Maybe we should make a line and use that line to make decisions. But how do we choose this line? That's subjective! How do we make multiple people agree? What about we just remove subjectiveness? Without that though programming and creativity in programming cannot work so let's just remove programming too! Of course that's not how we do things so how do we… Okay let's take a step back. If we made an announcement in the forums which only 1% of people see then that wouldn't be good, how about a banner? But someone could just dismiss that without reading, how many though? It's hard to get a percentage for this. We cannot get a percentage for any decision really, it can always be ignored right? Probability isn't a good way to sum this up. Okay let's take another step back. How about we use a more optimistic approach, let's say every Scratcher sees this announcement! But if that's true then why cannot every scratcher just read the stickies? If that's true then why make these suggestions, Scratch will one day implement them on their own because their so good! I mean optimistically you could think that. So we cannot use optimism for this, hmm… It's gonna be hard knowing if this suggestion is good or not because it's all rooted in opinions, we need a standard set of rules but who decides these rules? What if people start hating them? How do format them? So many little questions leading to other little questions, it would be too much work. What is too much work though? That's subjective… Oh * it! Opinions just keep coming back! I guess it's harder to find a perfect suggestion then I thought.

(Wait, d a n m is censored???)

Sliverus wrote:

If the issue with my suggestion is that kids will not understand an announcement about the Scratch Teams actions, what changes things about a similar topic being made in the New Scratchers forum?

Personally, I'm a kid, and I had no problem reading jvvg's essay. What would be so different about the Scratch Team's message? Also, “kids” or really anyone, don't have to read it if they don't want to. How often is the Announcements forum used anyway?

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

(Wait, is censored???)

Only on the forums, not the main site.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

snip

My issue isn't about subjectivity. I had three points, and my third one was my main argument. How would you respond?

Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

snip

My issue isn't about subjectivity. I had three points, and my third one was my main argument. How would you respond?

That is my response. My alternative didn't work, this suggestion could technically not work. It all boils down to subjectivity which is why it's very hard to find a perfect alternative or suggestion. Even a suitable one because again suitable is subjective.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

That is my response. My alternative didn't work, this suggestion could technically not work. It all boils down to subjectivity which is why it's very hard to find a perfect alternative or suggestion. Even a suitable one because again suitable is subjective.

I never said it couldn't work. I'm just asking what qualities a topic in New Scratchers would have to help kids, that an announcement wouldn't have.

Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

That is my response. My alternative didn't work, this suggestion could technically not work. It all boils down to subjectivity which is why it's very hard to find a perfect alternative or suggestion. Even a suitable one because again suitable is subjective.

I never said it couldn't work. I'm just asking what qualities a topic in New Scratchers would have to help kids, that an announcement wouldn't have.

Well I admit that alternative wasn't that much better then yours. An New Scratchers topic would be such as useless as an announcement. Remember that only 1% of Scratchers use the forums?

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

Well I admit that alternative wasn't that much better then yours. An New Scratchers topic would be such as useless as an announcement. Remember that only 1% of Scratchers use the forums?

Except you're forgetting one quality that announcements have that New Scratchers doesn't have : a link to that topic can appear on the front page. So I don't think we'd have to worry about 1% of Scratchers using the forums.

Alrighty, I'm dropping in like Frisk from undertale into this.


1. Independant
2. Non-profit, small budget (includes being ran on donations, else much related here)

1. Are human (somehow, some people do believe that a bot is used, presumably from the automatic takedown bot, this includes that everyone makes mistakes, confusion is temporal and clearable.)
2. Is small, they are not a gigantic army of people that will evaporize you from existance.
3. Are as bound to their actions as anyone else on the platform is. After all, actions have consequences. They are the people who help to keep the All-Ages factor, moderation factor, keep the site as friendly as possible even if people complain that there is huge struggle (which is honestly fair that they struggle, how is anyone going to micromanage over 114 million things by themselves? They are literally outnumbered but remain determined on it {it's honestly inspiring})

It's even painful just seeing that they get hate for actually great reasonings, confusion, while inevitable is clearable.

Support.

cheddargirl wrote:

(#17)
I think it's only fair to do the reverse: me asking you questions. Doesn't have to be just you answering, could be anyone:

• There is clearly some really weird disconnect in how long people believe a suggestion should implemented from the time the suggestion was made. What did you originally feel is the ideal time a suggestion should be implemented, and what was your reasons for coming up with that time frame?
  

Apologies if im misreading this by the way, it's 19:54 CEST and I need sleep

If it isn't a bother (apologies if it is), I will add my two forints to this.

I have honestly had barely any suggestions that I believed were awesome timing or reasoning to be implemented, mostly only PFP GIF optional/gone.
Main reason was only due to accessibility, etcetera, etcetera.
I have since somewhat changed my mind (although not entirely) as GIFs are literally most of the profile trend things so the backlash would fall like some actually well done and unexpected dramatic plot-twist except its not good whatsoever.

• If you perceived the rules to be excessively strict, what were your reasons for staying instead of moving to a community elsewhere with a similar scope (e.g. Snap!, GameMaker, etc.) or using the offline editor?

I, at one point was unfortunately one person who never read the alerts, and was… overly believing, to say the least. Though gladly changed.
I do not perceive them as excessive to be honest, they are just in the line of “Hey, learn your ACTIONs have CONSEQUENCEs, be kind”, etcetera.

I have actually been thinking of trying GameMaker but that's unrelated, I never really thought of switching communities (if we are limiting to mentioning Scratch and other things such as like Game Maker as aforementioned)

Never really considered using the offline editor, not until this year, only because I needn't to worry about project loss after losing my internet connection.

How did you come across Scratch, and how effectively was it communicated to you that the program was a tool primarily aimed at young children (5-8 years if age)? If you didn't know it was aimed at children, does that fact affect how you view the software and website and what projects you'll upload going forward?

I came across Scratch via seeing people just sharing their stuff off it, mainly UNDERTALE, in fact I haven't changed a bit from that. I was really ignorant back then, however I did see a snippet of it, just didn't know how to understand it yet (my english was worse than a decade old sandwich, and the translations are still unfortunately unfinished however it's understandable that they are). If I didn't know it was aimed for children, then I'd probably be still posting UNDERTALE stuff not knowing much, just staying in the dark basically. I do not personally feel affected, as the All-Ages-Strictness is AS FAIR AS IT CAN BE (not a typo, not saying it's unfair, it is actually fair) as the reasonings make sense, and while sometimes there is confusion of “wait what??” it can be cleared up, talked through.

• How effectively was it communicated to you that the website was designed for asset-sharing and remixing, with an emphasis on copyleft principles and not copyright principles?

Honestly? The motto made me understand it. I genuinely didn't even care about the remixing a while back, still now. I just defend the fact it exists, generally don't even care.

In fact, without Remixing, A LOT of things would just not exist, including memes, great projects, etcetera. I could go on and on and on, blah blah blah.

• In what ways have you positively contributed to the Scratch Community in the past year? If not, what plans will you take to do that going on forwards?
  

Foruming and helping something get slammed into the filter, though the foruming help was not always was positive, for example often times when discussing remixing, etcetera; It went… Not very calm of a try.

Mainly attempting to try and emphasize better, contribute to the community more even if I am already downgrading my grades in turn, more of getting into the learning aspect grand scheme of it instead of the fame.

I think that's all I can really say.

Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

Well I admit that alternative wasn't that much better then yours. An New Scratchers topic would be such as useless as an announcement. Remember that only 1% of Scratchers use the forums?

Except you're forgetting one quality that announcements have that New Scratchers doesn't have : a link to that topic can appear on the front page. So I don't think we'd have to worry about 1% of Scratchers using the forums.

Well a link to any topic can appear on the front page if the Scratch Team wants so a topic in New Scratchers could also get linked.

Zydrolic wrote:

Alrighty, I'm dropping in like Frisk from undertale into this.

honestly, this would probably open eyes in assistance of acknowledging that the Scratch Team is not only small, but the Scratch Foundation is:

1. Independant
2. Non-profit, small budget (includes being ran on donations, else much related here)

And that the Scratch Team:

1. Are human (somehow, some people do believe that a bot is used, presumably from the automatic takedown bot, this includes that everyone makes mistakes, confusion is temporal and clearable.)
2. Is small, they are not a gigantic army of people that will evaporize you from existance.
3. Are as bound to their actions as anyone else on the platform is. After all, actions have consequences. They are the people who help to keep the All-Ages factor, moderation factor, keep the site as friendly as possible even if people complain that there is huge struggle (which is honestly fair that they struggle, how is anyone going to micromanage over 114 million things by themselves? They are literally outnumbered but remain determined on it {it's honestly inspiring})

It's even painful just seeing that they get hate for actually great reasonings, confusion, while inevitable is clearable.

Support.

cheddargirl wrote:

(#17)
I think it's only fair to do the reverse: me asking you questions. Doesn't have to be just you answering, could be anyone:

• There is clearly some really weird disconnect in how long people believe a suggestion should implemented from the time the suggestion was made. What did you originally feel is the ideal time a suggestion should be implemented, and what was your reasons for coming up with that time frame?
  

Apologies if im misreading this by the way, it's 19:54 CEST and I need sleep

If it isn't a bother (apologies if it is), I will add my two forints to this.

I have honestly had barely any suggestions that I believed were awesome timing or reasoning to be implemented, mostly only PFP GIF optional/gone.
Main reason was only due to accessibility, etcetera, etcetera.
I have since somewhat changed my mind (although not entirely) as GIFs are literally most of the profile trend things so the backlash would fall like some actually well done and unexpected dramatic plot-twist except its not good whatsoever.

• If you perceived the rules to be excessively strict, what were your reasons for staying instead of moving to a community elsewhere with a similar scope (e.g. Snap!, GameMaker, etc.) or using the offline editor?

I, at one point was unfortunately one person who never read the alerts, and was… overly believing, to say the least. Though gladly changed.
I do not perceive them as excessive to be honest, they are just in the line of “Hey, learn your ACTIONs have CONSEQUENCEs, be kind”, etcetera.

I have actually been thinking of trying GameMaker but that's unrelated, I never really thought of switching communities (if we are limiting to mentioning Scratch and other things such as like Game Maker as aforementioned)

Never really considered using the offline editor, not until this year, only because I needn't to worry about project loss after losing my internet connection.

How did you come across Scratch, and how effectively was it communicated to you that the program was a tool primarily aimed at young children (5-8 years if age)? If you didn't know it was aimed at children, does that fact affect how you view the software and website and what projects you'll upload going forward?

I came across Scratch via seeing people just sharing their stuff off it, mainly UNDERTALE, in fact I haven't changed a bit from that. I was really ignorant back then, however I did see a snippet of it, just didn't know how to understand it yet (my english was worse than a decade old sandwich, and the translations are still unfortunately unfinished however it's understandable that they are). If I didn't know it was aimed for children, then I'd probably be still posting UNDERTALE stuff not knowing much, just staying in the dark basically. I do not personally feel affected, as the All-Ages-Strictness is AS FAIR AS IT CAN BE (not a typo, not saying it's unfair, it is actually fair) as the reasonings make sense, and while sometimes there is confusion of “wait what??” it can be cleared up, talked through.

• How effectively was it communicated to you that the website was designed for asset-sharing and remixing, with an emphasis on copyleft principles and not copyright principles?

Honestly? The motto made me understand it. I genuinely didn't even care about the remixing a while back, still now. I just defend the fact it exists, generally don't even care.

In fact, without Remixing, A LOT of things would just not exist, including memes, great projects, etcetera. I could go on and on and on, blah blah blah.

• In what ways have you positively contributed to the Scratch Community in the past year? If not, what plans will you take to do that going on forwards?
  

Foruming and helping something get slammed into the filter, though the foruming help was not always was positive, for example often times when discussing remixing, etcetera; It went… Not very calm of a try.

Mainly attempting to try and emphasize better, contribute to the community more even if I am already downgrading my grades in turn, more of getting into the learning aspect grand scheme of it instead of the fame.

I think that's all I can really say.

Thanks Zydrolic for summing up everything I wanted to say.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

Well a link to any topic can appear on the front page if the Scratch Team wants so a topic in New Scratchers could also get linked.

Which brings us back to my question: What is it that the New Scratchers forum has that an announcement doesn't have?

Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

Well a link to any topic can appear on the front page if the Scratch Team wants so a topic in New Scratchers could also get linked.

Which brings us back to my question: What is it that the New Scratchers forum has that an announcement doesn't have?

What is it that the announcement forum has that a New Scratchers post doesn't have?
Nothing.
That's the answer to both questions.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

That's the answer to both questions.

Why do you think that the New Scratchers forum would be a better fit? The post is directed towards everyone, not just New Scratchers.

pasta_enjoyer7 wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

That's the answer to both questions.

Why do you think that the New Scratchers forum would be a better fit? The post is directed towards everyone, not just New Scratchers.

But if the Scratch Team encourages all Scratchers to read that topic then it doesn't really matter which forum it will be in.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

But if the Scratch Team encourages all Scratchers to read that topic then it doesn't really matter which forum it will be in.

You can't simply put it in any topic you want. For instance, do you think this kind of announcement would fit in Open Source Projects?

Sliverus wrote:

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

But if the Scratch Team encourages all Scratchers to read that topic then it doesn't really matter which forum it will be in.

You can't simply put it in any topic you want. For instance, do you think this kind of announcement would fit in Open Source Projects?

I don't think that but the Scratch Team could put the announcement there and link and it would be fine.

__Falcon-Games__ wrote:

I don't think that but the Scratch Team could put the announcement there and link and it would be fine.

I suppose they could, but Announcements is the best fit. I don't see the need to fit it anywhere else.

I like this idea a lot for me this announcement from 2021 which provides full reasoning for why they removed the feature came off far more positive to be both when I originally read it and now than this one which provides no reasoning

bobcat0701 wrote:

(#59)
I like this idea a lot for me this announcement from 2021 which provides full reasoning for why they removed the feature came off far more positive to be both when I originally read it and now than this one which provides no reasoning

Maintenance and removal of a feature are two different things.

Sometimes, it's better to just stay silent.

Plus, if they just wanna update some code on the homepage, do we really need to know? We needn't pry or gossip.