Remove or update §4.4 of the ToU

Maximouse

Scratch Terms of Use wrote:
4.4 You may only submit user-generated projects that were created with (1) the Scratch website editor or (2) an unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code described in Section 5.3. You may not upload any projects that were created, by you or by anyone else, with a modified version of the Scratch editor.

5.3 The source code for Scratch 1.4 is available for download and subject to the copyright notice as indicated on the Scratch FAQ page.

This part of the ToU just doesn't make sense. It means the following are theoretically not allowed:

projects created using mods (I'm talking about those mods that don't add new blocks but make programming with Scratch easier);
projects created using 3rd party editors, generators or converters, such as Tosh or LLVM to Scratch compilers;
projects created using the 2.0 or 3.0 offline editor (I'm sure there are millions of them)!!! (see also this)
JSON hacking.

However,

in practice, the Scratch Team doesn't enforce this rule;
Scratch is supposed to encourage creativity, but this limits it a lot.

So I'm suggesting §4.4 of ToU to be either removed, or updated to make at least some of the above allowed. Maybe as suggested by apple502j:

4.4 You may only submit user-generated projects that are compatible with (1) the Scratch website editor or (2) an unmodified copy of the Scratch editor released by the Scratch Team. You may not upload any projects that require a modified version of the Scratch editor to open.

Last edited by Maximouse (Dec. 5, 2020 11:00:02)

thr565ono

Maximouse wrote:
Scratch Terms of Use wrote:
4.4 You may only submit user-generated projects that were created with (1) the Scratch website editor or (2) an unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code described in Section 5.3. You may not upload any projects that were created, by you or by anyone else, with a modified version of the Scratch editor.

projects created using the 2.0 or 3.0 offline editor (I'm sure there are millions of them)!!! (see also this)

The 2.0 and 3.0 offline editors are “unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code”, as they are identical to actual scratch, and are just compiled into an app instead of a website.

Maximouse

thr565ono wrote:
The 2.0 and 3.0 offline editors are “unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code”, as they are identical to actual scratch, and are just compiled into an app instead of a website.

Yes, but they aren't compiled from the source code described in 5.3 because 5.3 talks about 1.4 source code.

gilbert_given_189

Maximouse wrote:
Scratch Terms of Use wrote:
* projects created using the 2.0 or 3.0 offline editor (I'm sure there are millions of them)!!! (see also this)

Technically, you're dupe-ing your self.

Maximouse

gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Technically, you're dupe-ing your self.

Why?

gilbert_given_189

Maximouse wrote:
gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Technically, you're dupe-ing your self.
Why?

apple502j wrote:
can you change the Terms of Use to allow upload from the Offline Editor?

Maximouse wrote:
So I'm suggesting §4.4 of ToU to be either removed, or updated to make at least some of the above allowed.

Maximouse

gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Technically, you're dupe-ing your self.
Why?
apple502j wrote:
can you change the Terms of Use to allow upload from the Offline Editor?
Maximouse wrote:
So I'm suggesting §4.4 of ToU to be either removed, or updated to make at least some of the above allowed.

Yes, but I also mentioned mods, Tosh and JSON hacking.

gilbert_given_189

Maximouse wrote:
gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Maximouse wrote:
gilbert_given_189 wrote:
Technically, you're dupe-ing your self.
Why?
apple502j wrote:
can you change the Terms of Use to allow upload from the Offline Editor?
Maximouse wrote:
So I'm suggesting §4.4 of ToU to be either removed, or updated to make at least some of the above allowed.
Yes, but I also mentioned mods, Tosh and JSON hacking.

*gulp*

PkmnQ

I mean, I think it's obvious that offline editors are allowed. It's common sense.

If not, then there's a few more things that a lot of people may have broken.

Terms of Use wrote:
3.7 You agree not to post links to any content outside of the Scratch website, if to do so would violate any part of the Terms of Use.

Scratch modifications? Not allowed.
Scratchblocks 3.0? Not allowed.

Terms of Use wrote:
5.2 When you use Scratch support materials, or screenshots of the Scratch website, please use the following attribution: "Scratch is developed by the Lifelong Kindergarten Group at the MIT Media Lab. See http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxyberklee.flo.org"

Used a screenshot of the site on the forums? Better edit that in.

[half off-topic]I've broken 4.4 once in order to get undefined blocks. Other than that, the closest I've been is using the 1.4 editor to get <loud?> blocks.[/half off-topic]

Last edited by PkmnQ (Aug. 6, 2020 10:19:56)

Byron_Inc

They are still allowed to be created, just not allowed to be shared on the website. And the offline editors are actually by LLK and ST, so they're allowed.
Speaking of offline editor projects, I have 15 to 20 of them in my computer.

DownsGameClub

Maximouse wrote:
thr565ono wrote:
The 2.0 and 3.0 offline editors are “unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code”, as they are identical to actual scratch, and are just compiled into an app instead of a website.
Yes, but they aren't compiled from the source code described in 5.3 because 5.3 talks about 1.4 source code.

Oof, you're right.

In general they really need to get an update since the TOU has not been updated since April 2016.

PkmnQ wrote:
(…)
Terms of Use wrote:
5.2 When you use Scratch support materials, or screenshots of the Scratch website, please use the following attribution: "Scratch is developed by the Lifelong Kindergarten Group at the MIT Media Lab. See http://scratch.mit.edu.ezproxyberklee.flo.org"
Used a screenshot of the site on the forums? Better edit that in.

I don't think that's quite true. It is most likely implied/recognized that Scratch made the website when screenshots of the scratch.mit.edu domain are posted within its domain (if that makes sense) - having to give credit for every single instance of website content is way too much of a hassle.

This would most likely apply for sites outside of Scratch. Whether that's enforced or not I do not know.

Maximouse

Bump.

MrFluffyPenguins

i didn't know people actually read the terms of use

i know i didnt

i support btw, it doesn't make sense since that rule isn't enforced at all

Maximouse

Mr_PenguinAlex wrote:
i didn't know people actually read the terms of use

I didn't when I started using Scratch but later I did.

Basic88

Support! I don't think it makes sense to be banned for making projects in offline and exporting to online.
Theoretically, I should be banned because I made many projects from 1.4 to 3.0

Last edited by Basic88 (Aug. 11, 2020 21:20:55)

Basic88

bump

Maximouse

Bump.

Yeetoburro1

4.4 You may only submit user-generated projects that were created with (1) the Scratch website editor or (2) an unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code described in Section 5.3. You may not upload any projects that were created, by you or by anyone else, with a modified version of the Scratch editor.

Technically the scratch 3.0 and 2.0 offline editors are unmodified copies of the scratch editor.

fdreerf

Yeetoburro1 wrote:
4.4 You may only submit user-generated projects that were created with (1) the Scratch website editor or (2) an unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code described in Section 5.3. You may not upload any projects that were created, by you or by anyone else, with a modified version of the Scratch editor.

Technically the scratch 3.0 and 2.0 offline editors are unmodified copies of the scratch editor.

unmodified copy of the Scratch editor compiled from the source code described in Section 5.3

Section 5.3 only describes the 1.4 editor.

Last edited by fdreerf (Aug. 16, 2020 16:17:15)

Jeffalo

im pretty sure that would be against section 3.2

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