[EDIT: See link on master post, sorry] Remove the Suggestions Forum.

BaconAndEggs1School

I wish to advocate for the removal of the Suggestions section of the Scratch forums.
Reasons:
1. Few suggestions are ever actually approved. A lot of the time, I've seen threads that either ultimately end with dismissal, a thread leaning towards such conclusion or a then unresolved topic that has a tendency to end with dismissal despite the users' reception. Too rarely are there suggestions that Scratch Team has approved for consideration and through this process, many might end up unimplemented in future versions of Scratch. Since the chances of a good and useful suggestion are as minuscule as possible, the motivation to submit suggestions is shrinking as users tend to give up and thus minimizing the point of having a suggestions forum in the first place.
2. Little constructive discussion is ever contributed. While many users make their replies as constructive as possible, there are also plenty of posts simply stating “support” and “no support” without adding reasoning. There is also a lot of bickering and harsh replies that occurs within this space, which is a point I will continue with further on in this post. These posts being so prominent gives a major impression of a community without moderation and law.
3. There exists an overwhelming sense of negativity. I have seen users that often use harsh tones and sarcasm in their posts in response to others, sometimes even to posts of the same calibre. Many users who make suggestion threads are young, much like Scratch's general demographic, and these kinds of posts may frighten them from the community. This reason ties in with the above point of lack of constructive discussion.
Case in point, the Suggestions forum is a section of little use with an aggressive community and for that reason, I'm making the suggestion to remove this section.
https://scratch-mit-edu.ezproxyberklee.flo.org/discuss/topic/210080/?page=2#post-2113941

Last edited by BaconAndEggs1School (July 24, 2016 02:10:10)

RainaERusch

Surprisingly, I actually agree because the suggestions forums seems to be the most common starts of flame wars. In fact, if we removed this category, it would open a significant amount of data space that could be used for general site improvement. I support this.

Sheep_maker

A few suggestions got implemented (i.e. add to backpack button, hide follower/following counts on profile, limit project count on studios to 100, etc.) so maybe the ST is just waiting for a useful idea that doesn't involve too much effort or adding in a new block

Ending the tradition of “support” and “no support” which may be the cause of unconstructive responses has already been suggested here.

However the suggestions forum is quite negative so I can't really say anything against it…

I guess the Suggestions forum could be temporarily shut down until the ST is finished working on whatever they're working on before accepting new ideas?

Econinja

I also support this as well. Seriously, I do. In fact, the entire forum section is a mess. I would detail them but this suggestion is to remove the Suggestions forum so I can't really explain

Here's another that you can add:
4. Poor quality of suggestions
Look at the first page of the the subforum. Most of the topics are usually going to be closed: duplicates of other topics, rejected suggestions, block lists etc. Then you've got suggestions that are just “port to x platform!” (which sometimes are duplicates) and ambiguous suggestions which aren't usually closed which generally have a majority of no support but a few have got a lot of support. Then there's the extremely rare great suggestion with a 80% support rate which most of the time gets in to flames because it's because it's a major change to the website (e.g the about section)

Techno-CAT

Econinja wrote:
I also support this as well. Seriously, I do. In fact, the entire forum section is a mess. I would detail them but this suggestion is to remove the Suggestions forum so I can't really explain Here's another that you can add:
4. Poor quality of suggestions
Look at the first page of the the subforum. Most of the topics are usually going to be closed: duplicates of other topics, rejected suggestions, block lists etc. Then you've got suggestions that are just “port to x platform!” (which sometimes are duplicates) and ambiguous suggestions which aren't usually closed which generally have a majority of no support but a few have got a lot of support. Then there's the extremely rare great suggestion with a 80% support rate which most of the time gets in to flames because it's because it's a major change to the website (e.g the about section)

Sheep_maker

Econinja wrote:
I also support this as well. Seriously, I do. In fact, the entire forum section is a mess. I would detail them but this suggestion is to remove the Suggestions forum so I can't really explain Here's another that you can add:
4. Poor quality of suggestions
Look at the first page of the the subforum. Most of the topics are usually going to be closed: duplicates of other topics, rejected suggestions, block lists etc. Then you've got suggestions that are just “port to x platform!” (which sometimes are duplicates) and ambiguous suggestions which aren't usually closed which generally have a majority of no support but a few have got a lot of support. Then there's the extremely rare great suggestion with a 80% support rate which most of the time gets in to flames because it's because it's a major change to the website (e.g the about section)

Those aren't exactly “poor quality” suggestions. They might actually be good ideas but hasn't been well-thought out yet.

I think most of these duplicate/rejected/workaroundable/etc. suggestions are mainly caused by confusion here:

Discuss ideas for making improvements to Scratch.

or even just the name of the forum. It doesn't say “Discuss ideas that aren't duplicates, rejected by the Stickies, block lists, etc. that improve Scratch unless it's a too-major change” so it's not necessarily their fault (the pin icon also isn't necessarily a universal symbol for “Sticky”; new Scratchers could also assume they are unofficial or spam).

1MatsuLover

No Support, since removing it could actually be a problem.

alexphan

Sorry, but I don't support your suggestion. If you see any disrespectful posts, you can always report them. Plus, they teach you important life skills, such as debating. People just have to accept that there are some people in real life that will not like their suggestion, and they shouldn't just cry about it. And like I said, you can report posts that may seem too harsh and directed.

However, I do agree with Sheep_maker's idea:

Sheep_maker wrote:
I guess the Suggestions forum could be temporarily shut down until the ST is finished working on whatever they're working on before accepting new ideas?

PrincessPanda_test_

You just made a topic suggesting a removal of a forum this topic is in. Ironic.

Well, no support, since you can always report the hostile posts.

LP_Play

-1

If there are flame wars, report them. And if it weren't for the forum, Scratch would have less features.

Last edited by LP_Play (July 23, 2016 14:52:41)

edward789121test

Then why would you be suggesting this?
And above all, no support.
By the way, this forum is for suggesting to add things to scratch, not remove them.

Ziggy741

No support. There would be comments on Scratch Team Members' profiles like:

“Please add a when stop sign clicked block.”
“ALLOW US TO TURN OFF REMIXING!!!”
“Remove that 60 Second Rule!”
“ADD CLOUD LISTS RIGHT NOW!!!!!!”

That would not be good, and it would waste Scratch Team Members' time.

Deerleg

The ST does not necessarily have to add all suggested suggestions. Besides, they've added a couple of our suggestions through this forum. If this forum never existed, they would never have gotten through. Some is better than none. We can't just throw out the baby with the bathwater.

As for lack of “approval of consideration”, you may want to note that the ST never marks the posts that they are considering to add. (Now it would be really nice if they did that, though.)

I do agree with 2 and 3, though, but I don't think we have any good plans for preventing them right now besides the stuff we've been doing.

Sigton

I think there should definitely be improvements to counter these problems, but removing the whole forum is a bit extreme.

Sigton

birdoftheday

I completely agree. It seems like there is little interesting or constructive discussion here. I'd rather we as a community fix this instead of removing the whole forum though.

Sodyum

I don't think the forum itself is the problem, instead the real problem is the community. There needs to be a removal of the “support/no support” system as upvoting systems clearly causes the most issues here. Then we need to add a strong enforcement of the stickies which should always be previewed if unsure about posting something.

In fact I see only two real options:

-Making a larger moderation team
-Changing community standards

birdoftheday

I think what we need to do is to keep reporting posts that just state their position without any backup arguments. This isn't a voting precinct, it's a place for lively discussion and debate and it's being abused. We can't let this keep happening or who knows what it'll turn into.

Sodyum

birdoftheday wrote:
I think what we need to do is to keep reporting posts that just state their position without any backup arguments. This isn't a voting precinct, it's a place for lively discussion and debate and it's being abused. We can't let this keep happening or who knows what it'll turn into.

It's already turned into what we don't want.

I'm all for this, reporting “vote” posts would solve the issue much better.

Also, if there was an upvote button your post would be at the top :3

Jonathan50

Then why do you bother to make this suggestion? Sure, a lot of suggestions don't get approved, but that doesn't make suggestions pointless. There's lots of topics in the suggestions forum with constructive discussion, and lots that do get approved.

Last edited by Jonathan50 (July 24, 2016 00:29:18)

gdpr533f604550b2f20900645890

Sorry, but I would not like the Suggestions forum to be removed. Doing so would remove all the unconstructive activity, but also prevent people from discussing maturely about well-thought suggestions. Instead of removing the forum, we should crack down on currently-accepted behavior that are not constructive, such as supporting suggestions without a reason or no-supporting ideas that one does not understand. Then, the forums would be a better community.

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