Discuss Scratch

Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Try the beta: https://mxmou.github.io/scratch-gui/tb3/
Important: opening existing Scratch projects in TB3 isn't supported yet. (But projects made using TB3 can be opened in Scratch.)

TB3 replaces Scratch's block area with a code editor based on tosh. Because it's a Scratch mod, it still includes many Scratch features that text-based languages typically don't have, such as a costume and sound editor. The syntax is mostly the same as in tosh (see the guide), but I changed a few things:
  • Comments can be added using two slashes, like this: move 10 steps // this is a comment
  • In custom block definitions, number and text inputs are now both written using round brackets.
Currently, TB3 supports all built-in blocks and the following extensions: Pen, Music, Video Sensing, Text to Speech, Translate, Makey Makey.

Source code:
https://github.com/mxmou/scratch-gui/tree/tb3 (the interesting parts are in src/lib/tosh and src/lib/code-editor)
https://github.com/mxmou/scratch-vm/tree/tb3
https://github.com/mxmou/scratch-paint/tree/tb3

Last edited by Maximouse (Jan. 7, 2025 15:08:48)

B1j2754
Scratcher
76 posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Very nice! I love the look
BigNate469
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

I've been waiting for someone to do this.
8to16
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

finally, my dream come true

… i can open scratch projects though?

btw i think you left over the scratch trademarks (cat, gobo, tera, giga, nano, pico)
please remove them to avoid legal issues

Last edited by 8to16 (Dec. 28, 2024 23:04:08)

Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

8to16 wrote:

… i can open scratch projects though?
The code for importing them is incomplete – they can be opened but they might not work.

8to16 wrote:

btw i think you left over the scratch trademarks (cat, gobo, tera, giga, nano, pico)
please remove them to avoid legal issues
I'll remove them.
leogames2016
Scratcher
500+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

8to16 wrote:

finally, my dream come true

… i can open scratch projects though?

btw i think you left over the scratch trademarks (cat, gobo, tera, giga, nano, pico)
please remove them to avoid legal issues

No,trademark ain't that,it should only be removed if it's likely to confuse people into thinking it's Scratch.
8to16
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

leogames2016 wrote:

(#6)
No,trademark ain't that,it should only be removed if it's likely to confuse people into thinking it's Scratch.
yeah, but with the similar layout that could still happen, also the ToS says:
5.4 The Scratch name, Scratch logo, Scratch Day logo, Scratch Cat, and Gobo are Trademarks owned by the Scratch Team. The MIT name and logo are Trademarks owned by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Unless you are licensed by Scratch under a specific licensing program or agreement, you may not use these logos to label, promote, or endorse any product or service. You may use the Scratch Logo to refer to the Scratch website and programming language.
BigNate469
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

leogames2016 wrote:

8to16 wrote:

finally, my dream come true

… i can open scratch projects though?

btw i think you left over the scratch trademarks (cat, gobo, tera, giga, nano, pico)
please remove them to avoid legal issues

No,trademark ain't that,it should only be removed if it's likely to confuse people into thinking it's Scratch.
In this case it's probably better to stay on the safe side and remove them to avoid copyright issues.
leogames2016
Scratcher
500+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

BigNate469 wrote:

leogames2016 wrote:

8to16 wrote:

finally, my dream come true

… i can open scratch projects though?

btw i think you left over the scratch trademarks (cat, gobo, tera, giga, nano, pico)
please remove them to avoid legal issues

No,trademark ain't that,it should only be removed if it's likely to confuse people into thinking it's Scratch.
In this case it's probably better to stay on the safe side and remove them to avoid copyright issues.

But isn't Scratch Cat trademarked but not copyrighted? It is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,but is also trademarked. So these characters were never copyrighted,just trademarked.
BigNate469
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

leogames2016 wrote:

BigNate469 wrote:

snip

But isn't Scratch Cat trademarked but not copyrighted? It is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,but is also trademarked. So these characters were never copyrighted,just trademarked.
1. “Copyright” refers to a set of laws designed to protect people's intellectual property- anything licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0 (or any other “copyleft” license, other than one that makes it a part of the public domain) is still under copyright. It's just not an all rights reserved license
2. Scratch Cat is not licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0, as it is not “user-generated content submitted to the website”, and ToU 5.1:

Terms of Use wrote:

5.1 Except for any user-generated content, the Scratch Team owns and retains all rights in and to the Scratch code, the design, functionality, and architecture of Scratch, and any software or content provided through Scratch (collectively “the Scratch IP”).
3. Trademark laws are a subset of copyright law. Things that are a trademark of an entity are still under copyright.
leogames2016
Scratcher
500+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

BigNate469 wrote:

leogames2016 wrote:

BigNate469 wrote:

snip

But isn't Scratch Cat trademarked but not copyrighted? It is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,but is also trademarked. So these characters were never copyrighted,just trademarked.
1. “Copyright” refers to a set of laws designed to protect people's intellectual property- anything licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0 (or any other “copyleft” license, other than one that makes it a part of the public domain) is still under copyright. It's just not an all rights reserved license
2. Scratch Cat is not licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0, as it is not “user-generated content submitted to the website”, and ToU 5.1:

Terms of Use wrote:

5.1 Except for any user-generated content, the Scratch Team owns and retains all rights in and to the Scratch code, the design, functionality, and architecture of Scratch, and any software or content provided through Scratch (collectively “the Scratch IP”).
3. Trademark laws are a subset of copyright law. Things that are a trademark of an entity are still under copyright.

Thanks….

But technically,Scratch Cat's image,as shown on scratch is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,the support materials that represent Cat1 (Scratch Cat) is licensed under CC-BY-SA,you're wrong.

Even the terms of use (the one you brag about it every time) knows that the support materials are licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,but it doesn't apply to trademarks….

Terms of Use wrote:

5.2 Scratch provides support materials, including images, sounds, video, and sample code, to help users build projects. Support materials are licensed under the Creative Commons Attribution-ShareAlike 2.0 license. You may also use screenshots of Scratch under the same license. Please note that this does not apply to materials that are also trademarked by the Scratch Team or other parties as described in parts 5.4 and 5.5, below.

Even this

Terms of Use wrote:

5.5 The Scratch support materials library may contain images and sounds that are trademarked by third parties. The fact that materials are included in the Scratch support materials library does not in any way limit or reduce intellectual property rights, including trademark rights, otherwise available to the materials' owners. Nothing in these Terms of Use or the Creative Commons 2.0 license will be construed to limit or reduce any party's rights in that party's valid trademarks. You may not use these materials to label, promote, or endorse any product or service. You are solely responsible for any violation of a third party's intellectual property rights caused by your misuse of these materials.



Terms of Use wrote:

5.4 The Scratch name, Scratch logo, Scratch Day logo, Scratch Cat, and Gobo are Trademarks owned by the Scratch Team. The MIT name and logo are Trademarks owned by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. Unless you are licensed by Scratch under a specific licensing program or agreement, you may not use these logos to label, promote, or endorse any product or service. You may use the Scratch Logo to refer to the Scratch website and programming language.


Here it says product not scratch mods If you buy a product in the store and everyone thinks or is confused that it's Scratch Cat,that'll be sued by scratch foundation,this shouldn't apply to scratch mods despite TurboWarp removing them….

And by the subset,you're wrong….It isn't a subset,you can have a work that's in public domain but still trademarked,example of that is Mickey Mouse when he first appeared in 1928,he was now public domain since 2024 yet he was still trademarked. His copyright there is expired but trademarks never expire.
Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

leogames2016 wrote:

But technically,Scratch Cat's image,as shown on scratch is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,the support materials that represent Cat1 (Scratch Cat) is licensed under CC-BY-SA,you're wrong.
Most sprites are, but the section you quoted says “this does not apply to materials that are also trademarked by the Scratch Team”. The cat is trademarked.

I don't think the ST ever actually took action against community-made mods that included the trademarked sprites, but it's better to avoid any issues. TurboWarp removed these sprites too.
leogames2016
Scratcher
500+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Maximouse wrote:

leogames2016 wrote:

But technically,Scratch Cat's image,as shown on scratch is licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,the support materials that represent Cat1 (Scratch Cat) is licensed under CC-BY-SA,you're wrong.
Most sprites are, but the section you quoted says “this does not apply to materials that are also trademarked by the Scratch Team”. The cat is trademarked.

I don't think the ST ever actually took action against community-made mods that included the trademarked sprites, but it's better to avoid any issues. TurboWarp removed these sprites too.

Even if we assume that's the case,the TOS is still a bit confusing cause you can share the trademarked material and claim it is CC-BY-SA 2.0 and others give it credit. Trademark are different from copyright. The copyright on Scratch Cat is non-existent basically cause of it not being published and being licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,however it's also trademarked. Most characters are copyrighted because they were published and it automatically gave the copyright,the creators never bothered to give a CC-BY-SA license,even SEGA (who's actually lenient for non-commercial usage of it's products,especially sonic.) cause they claim it never existed or didn't bother to give it a copyleft license. If you wanna get them without permission,you must wait till it's public domain,which can be a long time especially if the creator in question didn't die or use it under fair use.
Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Update: Text to Speech, Translate, and Makey Makey blocks (prefixed with “makey makey:”) are now supported. You can also now add comments using two slashes, like this:
move 10 steps // this is a comment
Comments aren't included in the generated Scratch code.
Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

leogames2016 wrote:

(deleted post)
I've already removed Scratch Cat & friends from the library, so talking about their copyright status here is probably off-topic.

Last edited by Maximouse (Jan. 16, 2025 10:51:20)

Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Update: fixed syntax highlighting being buggy after switching to the Costumes or Sounds tab and back to Code.
leogames2016
Scratcher
500+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

Maximouse wrote:

leogames2016 wrote:

(deleted post)
I've already removed Scratch Cat & friends from the library, so talking about their copyright status here is probably off-topic.

You make me mad when you “delete” my post….

Still it's not off-topic……at least not in this forum…..

Even if we assume that's the case,the TOS is still a bit confusing cause you can share the trademarked material and claim it is CC-BY-SA 2.0 and others give it credit. Trademark are different from copyright. The copyright on Scratch Cat is non-existent basically cause of it not being published and being licensed under CC-BY-SA 2.0,however it's also trademarked. Most characters are copyrighted because they were published and it automatically gave the copyright,the creators never bothered to give a CC-BY-SA license,even SEGA (who's actually lenient for non-commercial usage of it's products,especially sonic.) cause they claim it never existed or didn't bother to give it a copyleft license. If you wanna get them without permission,you must wait till it's public domain,which can be a long time especially if the creator in question didn't die or use it under fair use.
uukelele
Scratcher
12 posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

I like the idea, although I feel like the syntax could be improved. I think using curly brackets instead of ‘then’ and auto-indents (which are already implemented in loops) for both loops and hat blocks would be more useful, and helps as most modern programming languages use {curly brackets}.
Maximouse
Scratcher
1000+ posts

TB3: text-based Scratch 3 (beta)

uukelele wrote:

I like the idea, although I feel like the syntax could be improved. I think using curly brackets instead of ‘then’ and auto-indents (which are already implemented in loops) for both loops and hat blocks would be more useful, and helps as most modern programming languages use {curly brackets}.
I don't like curly brackets. If the code is indented correctly, it's equally easy to read with and without them, but they make it harder to write, especially on non-English keyboard layouts where they're written using a combination of keys.

There are many text-bases languages that compile to Scratch and others have made different design choices, so there a lot of options to choose from if you prefer a different syntax.

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