Rainbow infinity emoji for autism/disability acceptance

Za-Chary

Basilikos wrote:
I don't understand why add an emoji while they can do more important things that actually benefit people.

Such as raising awareness for the neurodivergent to encourage users to be more accepting of those who are neurodivergent? Yeah, that does sound like a beneficial thing that the Scratch Team can do. I wonder how they would be able to do that.

Basilikos

Za-Chary wrote:
Basilikos wrote:
I don't understand why add an emoji while they can do more important things that actually benefit people.
Such as raising awareness for the neurodivergent to encourage users to be more accepting of those who are neurodivergent? Yeah, that does sound like a beneficial thing that the Scratch Team can do. I wonder how they would be able to do that.

Not by adding a silly reversed-eight emoji! By featuring neurodivergency studios, making projects about it? I hope it's how they'll do it.

Za-Chary

Basilikos wrote:
Not by adding a silly reversed-eight emoji! By featuring neurodivergency studios, making projects about it? I hope it's how they'll do it.

Good ideas, but those are only temporary solutions — featured studios and projects are only on the front page for a few weeks — and it may not be easy to find enough neurodiversity studios and projects to make sure one is always on the front page at any given time. Adding an emoji sounds a little more permanent and cost-effective.

Basilikos

Za-Chary wrote:
Basilikos wrote:
Not by adding a silly reversed-eight emoji! By featuring neurodivergency studios, making projects about it? I hope it's how they'll do it.
Good ideas, but those are only temporary solutions — featured studios and projects are only on the front page for a few weeks — and it may not be easy to find enough neurodiversity studios and projects to make sure one is always on the front page at any given time. Adding an emoji sounds a little more permanent and cost-effective.

Do people obsessively go to the Scratch Wiki to check if there are any new emojis? You can't keep the announcement forever.

Za-Chary

Basilikos wrote:
Do people obsessively go to the Scratch Wiki to check if there are any new emojis? You can't keep the announcement forever.

It's an emoji that people are going to use often. One way or another, someone will discover it. The emoji isn't going to go away just because the announcement does.

GIitchInTheMatrix

Za-Chary wrote:
Basilikos wrote:
I don't understand why add an emoji while they can do more important things that actually benefit people.
Such as raising awareness for the neurodivergent to encourage users to be more accepting of those who are neurodivergent? Yeah, that does sound like a beneficial thing that the Scratch Team can do. I wonder how they would be able to do that.

Counter point.
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence, and if they don’t accept it, than an emoji won’t shift them. Also, what does this tell you about being neurodivergent? A few examples, the pride flag, what does it tell you about being LGBTQ+? What does the BLM flag say? Sure, with association, it may work, but how would one associate the meaning without knowing? They might see the infinity sign, and think “Hey, this is a cool emoji,” without knowing its meaning.
However, by featuring projects related to mental health, it does spread information. Whilst this won’t necessarily do much, as if you don’t accept someone, it doesn’t always help, but it arguably has more of an impact than an emoji.

Basilikos

Za-Chary wrote:
It's an emoji that people are going to use often. One way or another, someone will discover it. The emoji isn't going to go away just because the announcement does.

Not if the thing doesn't have anything to do with the sentence they're saying! There are many ND spaces such as “Autism Acceptance Studio” which invites people frequently to teach them of autism and stuff ( I've been invited ) and they do a far better job than a silly emoji.
Infact, you won't find any use of the emoji until you actually search for it and its spaces. scratch moment

Za-Chary

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence

Do you have a source for this? There will always be young children on Scratch who either don't know or don't understand neurodivergence.

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
and if they don’t accept it, than an emoji won’t shift them.

The emoji isn't intended to change peoples' minds (although it's great if it does), but it's intended to spread awareness and encourage acceptance for those who are not well-informed about neurodivergence.

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
Also, what does this tell you about being neurodivergent? A few examples, the pride flag, what does it tell you about being LGBTQ+? What does the BLM flag say? Sure, with association, it may work, but how would one associate the meaning without knowing? They might see the infinity sign, and think “Hey, this is a cool emoji,” without knowing its meaning.

Are you suggesting that the _pride_ and _blm_ emojis also have the same problem? If so, then a neurodivergence emoji wouldn't be any different, so why would adding it be a problem? If not, then what makes the neurodivergence emoji different from _pride_ and _blm_?

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
However, by featuring projects related to mental health, it does spread information. Whilst this won’t necessarily do much, as if you don’t accept someone, it doesn’t always help, but it arguably has more of an impact than an emoji.

Doing both (feature projects and make an emoji) sounds like it could be a good idea!

Gamer_Logan819

Za-Chary wrote:
Gamer_Logan819 wrote:
Agreed, I don’t think we need these emojis
We don't really need a binoculars emoji either, but I haven't seen any complaints about that emoji lately.

Because nobody knows about a binoculars emoji?

GIitchInTheMatrix

Za-Chary wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence
Do you have a source for this? There will always be young children on Scratch who either don't know or don't understand neurodivergence.

Most schools, at least in my experience, start teaching about mental health as soon as 2nd grade.

Za-Chary wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
and if they don’t accept it, than an emoji won’t shift them.
The emoji isn't intended to change peoples' minds (although it's great if it does), but it's intended to spread awareness and encourage acceptance for those who are not well-informed about neurodivergence.

The same issue arises, the emoji doesn’t show much. Covered below

Za-Chary wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
Also, what does this tell you about being neurodivergent? A few examples, the pride flag, what does it tell you about being LGBTQ+? What does the BLM flag say? Sure, with association, it may work, but how would one associate the meaning without knowing? They might see the infinity sign, and think “Hey, this is a cool emoji,” without knowing its meaning.
Are you suggesting that the _pride_ and _blm_ emojis also have the same problem? If so, then a neurodivergence emoji wouldn't be any different, so why would adding it be a problem? If not, then what makes the neurodivergence emoji different from _pride_ and _blm_?

I am. The issue was much smaller at the time they were released. Actually, if anything, the BLM emoji is the only one which still stands, as it is obvious what it means. Three fists in unison, differing skin colors, are better at showing what it’s meant to represent, racial equality. However, if i don’t know what pride is, then the emoji won’t show me. This is similar with the infinity sign.

Za-Chary wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
However, by featuring projects related to mental health, it does spread information. Whilst this won’t necessarily do much, as if you don’t accept someone, it doesn’t always help, but it arguably has more of an impact than an emoji.
Doing both (feature projects and make an emoji) sounds like it could be a good idea!

However, it only works in the short term. When the content isn’t being featured, then it’s just another picture. Additionally, as you said:

Za-Chary wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence
Do you have a source for this? There will always be young children on Scratch who either don't know or don't understand neurodivergence.

If a young child doesn’t understand it, then tthey won’t from an emoji.
That is to say, if they do do an emoji, than it should be something more timeless, which is where what i like to call the “Pride Problem” comes in:
The pride emoji was designed to advertise equal rights without limits based off gender or sexual orientation. However, this only makes sense with the context of what gender and sexuality is. Most schools don’t teach this, and as such, it is nothing more than a multi color flag to users who don’t know it.
They have the emoji, designed to, seemingly, advertise neurodivergence, which makes sense for the front page at the time. However, after it plays its course, then it needs to be explained why it holds any significance, which doesn’t work if a users friends don’t understand.
I’d also argue, the pride flag does a long term meaning, as looking up “Rainbow Flag” does return resu;ts about what it means in the context, unlike looking up the infinity emoji.

-Squiggle

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence

do you have a source to prove this? because from what I've seen, many people still are unaware of the neurodiversity movement and have asked me about it.

Also, what does this tell you about being neurodivergent?

you are free to research the meaning behind the rainbow/gold infinity symbol if you want to know what it means. search results will show up if you search “rainbow infinity”, and if you search it on scratch you will also get some content related to neurodiversity.
I don't think it would be any more confusing than the pride flag, but if it was, then the disability pride flag could still be a good candidate.
people not immediately knowing its meaning does not take away the significance of the emoji. even if it was used without people knowing its meaning, there's still a higher chance people would find out about it than if it didn't exist at all - and the number of people who understand what it means and use it relevantly would grow. and those who already know what it means would enjoy using the emoji.
(also you just totally disproved your first point.)

However, by featuring projects related to mental health, it does spread information.

Most schools, at least in my experience, start teaching about mental health as soon as 2nd grade.

mental health and neurodiversity are different things. neurodiversity is not taught in schools.

Basilikos wrote:
There are many ND spaces such as “Autism Acceptance Studio” which invites people frequently to teach them of autism and stuff ( I've been invited ) and they do a far better job than a silly emoji.

In that studio, @PinksMonkey (the studio host) invites everyone manually, and they could choose to stop at any point. the Scratch Team had nothing to do with the creation of that studio, and it has never been featured on the front page. there's no knowing whether it does a better job than a neurodiversity emoji because we don't have a neurodiversity emoji. also, why not have both?

Gamer_Logan819

I sense a flame war coming…

edit: omg the squiggles here to bring autism acceptance

Last edited by Gamer_Logan819 (April 18, 2023 14:06:20)

-Squiggle

GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
They have the emoji, designed to, seemingly, advertise neurodivergence, which makes sense for the front page at the time. However, after it plays its course, then it needs to be explained why it holds any significance, which doesn’t work if a users friends don’t understand

you are factoring out the scenario that the user's friends might understand. also the fact that curiosity exists. and that people who once saw neurodiversity content using the symbol and then later see the symbol elsewhere might recognise it.

Gamer_Logan819

-Squiggle wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
They have the emoji, designed to, seemingly, advertise neurodivergence, which makes sense for the front page at the time. However, after it plays its course, then it needs to be explained why it holds any significance, which doesn’t work if a users friends don’t understand
you are factoring out the scenario that the user's friends might understand. also the fact that curiosity exists. and that people who once saw neurodiversity content using the symbol and then later see the symbol elsewhere might recognise it.

But not everyone has friends that understand or have seen it used.

-Squiggle

yeah, so?

Gamer_Logan819

-Squiggle wrote:
yeah, so?

So… not everyone will know what it means? We’ve already said this, but Unlike blm emoji where a meaning can be inferred, an infinity symbol cannot unless you look it up, which I assume most kids won’t take the time to do. The emoji is mostly useless. Basically everyone on scratch knows what it means and knows about it, especially due to the new studio, so this emoji would be useless if it was trying to spread awareness.

Basilikos

-Squiggle wrote:
In that studio, @PinksMonkey (the studio host) invites everyone manually, and they could choose to stop at any point. the Scratch Team had nothing to do with the creation of that studio, and it has never been featured on the front page. there's no knowing whether it does a better job than a neurodiversity emoji because we don't have a neurodiversity emoji. also, why not have both?

They won't be the last to do so. A scratch emoji isn't used just because, you actually have to find spaces where such emoji is used so people won't find it easily. And yes, we can have both, I don't mind the emoji, I'm just saying that there are no pros to it other than for prideful comments.

GIitchInTheMatrix

-Squiggle wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
At this point, most people have seen neurodivergence
do you have a source to prove this?

Why, yes, as through personal experience, the vast, vast majority of users I’ve seen do know the difference, among people IRL.

-Squiggle wrote:
because from what I've seen, many people still are unaware of the neurodiversity movement and have asked me about it.

As such, if friends don’t know about it, how will they find out the meaning?

-Squiggle wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
Also, what does this tell you about being neurodivergent?
you are free to research the meaning behind the rainbow/gold infinity symbol if you want to know what it means.

Ah. I had though that it was a plain infinity sign

-Squiggle wrote:
I don't think it would be any more confusing than the pride flag, but if it was, then the disability pride flag could still be a good candidate.

With this case, ti can work, as it’s easier to understand what a flag is for all ages, which arguably does much more, as it’s arguable that kids know a flag more. This could be countered with the fact kinds can ask their parents, but what if the parents dislike a group for some reason? Additionally, needing to ask a parent before being able to do research isn’t good, due to massive limits.

-Squiggle wrote:
people not immediately knowing its meaning does not take away the significance of the emoji.

However, I’d argue that, in this case, it’s better to have an easily identified emoji. As you said, the flag, which easily does more.

-Squiggle wrote:
even if it was used without people knowing its meaning, there's still a higher chance people would find out about it than if it didn't exist at all -

Or, they could choose a more recognizable symbol, thus not needing parents, or do something that works year round. Maybe a multitude of brains, as that shows what it means.

-Squiggle wrote:
and the number of people who understand what it means and use it relevantly would grow. and those who already know what it means would enjoy using the emoji.

See above.

-Squiggle wrote:
(also you just totally disproved your first point.)

However, by featuring projects related to mental health, it does spread information.

Most schools, at least in my experience, start teaching about mental health as soon as 2nd grade.

I was speaking of two very different audiences, one which they learn early, and one which they aren’t. If the school doesn’t, an emoji won’t teach them.

-Squiggle wrote:
mental health and neurodiversity are different things. neurodiversity is not taught in schools.

Things such as autism, which are almost always dealt with as neurodivergence, and are, by definition, is taught in school.
While neurodivergence is not as small a group, it is also has a stepping stone of mental health.

-Squiggle wrote:
GIitchInTheMatrix wrote:
They have the emoji, designed to, seemingly, advertise neurodivergence, which makes sense for the front page at the time. However, after it plays its course, then it needs to be explained why it holds any significance, which doesn’t work if a users friends don’t understand
you are factoring out the scenario that the user's friends might understand.

6you are factoring in only if the users friend understands, which isn’t as important.

-Squiggle wrote:
also the fact that curiosity exists. and that people who once saw neurodiversity content using the symbol and then later see the symbol elsewhere might recognise it.

Good point, however, I’d argue, what if someone sees something like “Hey!_emoji_”, or someone says “I got diagnosed with blank_infinity_”
Than, they might not associate it so much.

-Squiggle wrote:
yeah, so?

A part of your argument required that at least one friend knows what it means, which isn’t always the case.
Edit: fixed quotes

Last edited by GIitchInTheMatrix (April 18, 2023 14:26:30)

Number-Lore_0

Basilikos wrote:
-Squiggle wrote:
I don't mind the emoji, I'm just saying that there are no pros to it other than for prideful comments.

I often see scratch emojis used this way, as decorations/embellishments to posts that are still clear and understandable without them. The neurodivergency emojis probably wouldn't be any different. Right now, there are only two movements with scratch emojis for them (that I am aware of), adding neurodivergency emojis would be adding another movement to this.

Basilikos

The quotes above are a mess so I won't quote.

We don't need to add an emoji just because you don't like plain text.

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