MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:

Downsgameclub wrote:

Also, this is a collaboration; how does a private project get known? It doesn't. It only gets known through a few members of the collaboration.

So? Private projects inherently aren't a trouble for moderation because as they aren't visible, they aren't able to hurt any scratchers. This information doesn't relate to your argument.

Any? How about the people inside the collaboration? Anything bad can happen inside without outsiders knowing, therefore, moderation is still a concern.

DownsGameClub wrote:

MegaApuTurkUltra wrote:

Downsgameclub wrote:

Also, this is a collaboration; how does a private project get known? It doesn't. It only gets known through a few members of the collaboration.

So? Private projects inherently aren't a trouble for moderation because as they aren't visible, they aren't able to hurt any scratchers. This information doesn't relate to your argument.

Any? How about the people inside the collaboration? Anything bad can happen inside without outsiders knowing, therefore, moderation is still a concern.

So the hurt person will report it. I still don't see a problem.

You're trying to extract an argument from something that was weak to begin with. And if it's such a concern, Scratch can have version control without collaboration at first. Tell me what's wrong with that.

Would remixing be cloning?

First git is a community platform. It uses things like push and pull and commit. Those all are part of collaboration. Second when paddletosee* said this “I agree that it isn't something we can support right now, because of the moderation and technical issues, however I don't agree with the statement that it teaches bad collaboration techniques. Just because it isn't the way something is done now, or by most people, isn't always a good reason to reject it.

I do think it should be added to the rejection list because the moderation and technical issues are quite substantial and I don't think we should spend time discussing it until we have more resources available to address those.” That was on a different issue. Not related to git. I asked him. This is the post :
https://scratch-mit-edu.ezproxyberklee.flo.org/discuss/topic/196554/?page=1#post-1958869

So paddle2see did not say git would be bad for moderation. I hope this cleared up any questions.

Tux_fan, thank you for your mature posts. I'm sorry that the other repliers do not show equal respect and desire to understand when discussing your suggestion. I apologize on behalf of the Suggestions community.

EDIT: Also, please know that many of the frequent forum posters are in fact younger children.

birdoftheday wrote:

It seems like everyone here is brigading this situation and echoing what one person said and using that as an excuse to not even try to comprehend it and uselessly dismiss it. Git is not a community platform, it is simply a way to track changes on a project you're working on. It does not include ANYTHING that would need to be moderated by the Scratch team in any significant way.

I'm assuming that people think that this would allow you to have a “private project (repo)” that multiple people could commit to, which would have moderation concerns.

Personally, I think that a VCS system would be great, but I don't think that git would work very well. I think that it would have to be made by the ST specifically for Scratch.

Thank you @BookOwl and @Chibi-Matoran. Yes I meant it as open source so everyone can see the project. However I see no reason why git could be implemented because git works with all types of files. Even pictures work with git. If git is to complex for some scratchers a simpler system may be required.

And to answer your question @Chibi-Matoran I think you would be cloning if thats the right term. If you remixed it would just spam your projects folder.

Hey I see no reason why we couldn't download the project file and then hook it up to git! Instead of having the collaboration on scratch it would be on github. Unless would that bring up moderation issues? Let's say somone swore on github the scratch team would have no say. Perhaps we should ask the scratch team about this. It could be possible that scratch doesn't need git or a vcs built in.

tux_fan wrote:

Thank you @BookOwl and @Chibi-Matoran. Yes I meant it as open source so everyone can see the project. However I see no reason why git could be implemented because git works with all types of files. Even pictures work with git. If git is to complex for some scratchers a simpler system may be required.

And to answer your question @Chibi-Matoran I think you would be cloning if thats the right term. If you remixed it would just spam your projects folder.

One of the reasons that I don't think that git would work for Scratch is that git is file based, while Scratch doesn't use files, it uses sprites and costumes and sounds. Another reason is that git has a lot of complicated commands that would be hard to add to Scratch while still keeping Scratch simple for younger kids.

Again, I think that the idea of adding a VCS to Scratch is good, but I think that the ST should make their own that is designed to work with Scratch's unique design.

tux_fan wrote:

Hey I see no reason why we couldn't download the project file and then hook it up to git! Instead of having the collaboration on scratch it would be on github. Unless would that bring up moderation issues? Let's say somone swore on github the scratch team would have no say. Perhaps we should ask the scratch team about this. It could be possible that scratch doesn't need git or a vcs built in.

You already are allowed to do that, but since Scratch projects are a single .sb2 file, you would probably have to unpack the project into a folder and then put it on github.

One of the reasons that I don't think that git would work for Scratch is that git is file based, while Scratch doesn't use files, it uses sprites and costumes and sounds. Another reason is that git has a lot of complicated commands that would be hard to add to Scratch while still keeping Scratch simple for younger kids.

Again, I think that the idea of adding a VCS to Scratch is good, but I think that the ST should make their own that is designed to work with Scratch's unique design.

Not necessarily. All those sprites and everything are stored in a single file. Git could handle it. Maybe a simplified git version would be best? With commands that are graphical and are easier to understand.

tux_fan wrote:

BookOwl wrote:

One of the reasons that I don't think that git would work for Scratch is that git is file based, while Scratch doesn't use files, it uses sprites and costumes and sounds. Another reason is that git has a lot of complicated commands that would be hard to add to Scratch while still keeping Scratch simple for younger kids.

Again, I think that the idea of adding a VCS to Scratch is good, but I think that the ST should make their own that is designed to work with Scratch's unique design.

Not necessarily. All those sprites and everything are stored in a single file. Git could handle it. Maybe a simplified git version would be best? With commands that are graphical and are easier to understand.

While yes, it could, it kind of defeats the point of having different files that you change. The ST could probably base the VCS on git, but I think that they would have to make some changes like treating sprites, costumes, and sounds as different files that you could change.
Also, how would users use this? I'm assuming that their won't be a terminal emulator added to Scratch.

PS
When you are replying to somebody in the forums, it is best to click the quote link underneath their post. This automatically adds the person's post in a quote tag to your post. Just something to keep in mind.

Not necessarily. All those sprites and everything are stored in a single file. Git could handle it. Maybe a simplified git version would be best? With commands that are graphical and are easier to understand.
While yes, it could, it kind of defeats the point of having different files that you change. The ST could probably base the VCS on git, but I think that they would have to make some changes like treating sprites, costumes, and sounds as different files that you could change.
Also, how would users use this? I'm assuming that their won't be a terminal emulator added to Scratch.

PS
When you are replying to somebody in the forums, it is best to click the quote link underneath their post. This automatically adds the person's post in a quote tag to your post. Just something to keep in mind.


Ok. It is also a possiblity the sb2 file may need to change for vcs.

Like what BookOwl said, you should click the “quote” button so that we can tell which part of your reply is the quote and which part is your response.

Ok, I have been convinced now. Sorry about that.

One goal I want to mention is that we should keep the suggestion as simple as possible. Keep in mind that each file format is different. I also like your idea on using a simpler way to produce an open source code. I would prefer for it to have scratchbocks as much as possible, but that may not work.

Note: I am new to this git thing, so some of my info may be inaccurate…

DownsGameClub wrote:

Ok, I have been convinced now. Sorry about that.

One goal I want to mention is that we should keep the suggestion as simple as possible. Keep in mind that each file format is different. I also like your idea on using a simpler way to produce an open source code. I would prefer for it to have scratchbocks as much as possible, but that may not work.

Note: I am new to this git thing, so some of my info may be inaccurate…

Git is a version control system, meaning that it is a tool that records changes to files. Computer users edit files in the directory, then add them to a “staging area.” Users can then “commit” the staging area, recording the updated files in the Git “repository.”

Git is not linear. Users may navigate different “branches,” which are basically offshoots of revision history.

NOTE: In no way do I claim to be an expert on Git, so please feel free to correct any incorrect information. I hope that my understanding of Git is correct.

Chibi-Matoran wrote:

DownsGameClub wrote:

Ok, I have been convinced now. Sorry about that.

One goal I want to mention is that we should keep the suggestion as simple as possible. Keep in mind that each file format is different. I also like your idea on using a simpler way to produce an open source code. I would prefer for it to have scratchbocks as much as possible, but that may not work.

Note: I am new to this git thing, so some of my info may be inaccurate…

Git is a version control system, meaning that it is a tool that records changes to files. Computer users edit files in the directory, then add them to a “staging area.” Users can then “commit” the staging area, recording the updated files in the Git “repository.”

Git is not linear. Users may navigate different “branches,” which are basically offshoots of revision history.

NOTE: In no way do I claim to be an expert on Git, so please feel free to correct any incorrect information. I hope that my understanding of Git is correct.

That goes for me to not a expert. Here's my revised concept.

It should be simple. Each part of the VCS system should be easy to understand. I'll explain that later.
It should be based on git.
In order to keep it simple the vcs system would only include push, commit, staging, branches and push. It should also have a simple way to backtrack commits.
It would all be graphical in the way you control it.
It would also have the option to fork the project.
Anybody can submit, push, there code.
There would be the ability to add people to the commit list. Basically it means they can commit without there code being checked.
There would be another page similar to github. Most likely a lot simpler. I mean a lot.
And for the backend I am not an expert on how it should work.

Any suggestions or questions?

This would be great! Sometimes I see a project that I want to make a minor change to, but because of the amount of copy-“remixes” on Scratch, I can't bring myself to do it.

So there should be a “Fork” button on every proect, and then you can edit the project. Instead of a “Share” button, there could be a “Pull Request” button. When you click it then the project gets shared into another bar of your projects “Pull Request”. This would avoid moderation issues since the PR is public.

If the PR is merged, I think that credit should be forced at the bottom (there could be a button saying “Show Contributors” and then a list of users could appear.

Files should be stored as changes not the whole file. Since usually most of the script will be the same.

BookOwl, sure, we could think of a project as a repository and each sprite as a folder in the repo, and each costume, script, and sound as a file.

jokebookservice1

BookOwl wrote:

tux_fan wrote:

Thank you @BookOwl and @Chibi-Matoran. Yes I meant it as open source so everyone can see the project. However I see no reason why git could be implemented because git works with all types of files. Even pictures work with git. If git is to complex for some scratchers a simpler system may be required.

And to answer your question @Chibi-Matoran I think you would be cloning if thats the right term. If you remixed it would just spam your projects folder.

One of the reasons that I don't think that git would work for Scratch is that git is file based, while Scratch doesn't use files, it uses sprites and costumes and sounds. Another reason is that git has a lot of complicated commands that would be hard to add to Scratch while still keeping Scratch simple for younger kids.

Again, I think that the idea of adding a VCS to Scratch is good, but I think that the ST should make their own that is designed to work with Scratch's unique design.

I agree. Unless you do something like extract the SB2, use that in Git, and repack it every time, it won't work at all.

Tymewalk wrote:

BookOwl wrote:

tux_fan wrote:

Thank you @BookOwl and @Chibi-Matoran. Yes I meant it as open source so everyone can see the project. However I see no reason why git could be implemented because git works with all types of files. Even pictures work with git. If git is to complex for some scratchers a simpler system may be required.

And to answer your question @Chibi-Matoran I think you would be cloning if thats the right term. If you remixed it would just spam your projects folder.

One of the reasons that I don't think that git would work for Scratch is that git is file based, while Scratch doesn't use files, it uses sprites and costumes and sounds. Another reason is that git has a lot of complicated commands that would be hard to add to Scratch while still keeping Scratch simple for younger kids.

Again, I think that the idea of adding a VCS to Scratch is good, but I think that the ST should make their own that is designed to work with Scratch's unique design.

I agree. Unless you do something like extract the SB2, use that in Git, and repack it every time, it won't work at all.

I disagree… you can get the JSON directly, without the SB2. You could then parse the JSON, and treat each sprite as a folder. Each separate script, sound and costume as a file.

Of course the user would just see the normal Scratch editor, and the commands will be nice and simple buttons like “Suggest edit” (Pull Request) or “Remix to improve” (Fork).

I don't see how Git can't handle it, Scratch just has to implement a version suited to its needs.

At least let us remix projects and label them as “Minor Changes” and let the original project merge.